Rules on weapons

[Anthony M. Steiner]

It may seem obvious to others, but I have a few questions about the rules of weapon usage.

Ranged weapons:
If proficient enough, is a character able to make a "called shot" if with in a certain range?

When it comes to arrows and bolts, for bows and crossbows, is one able to retrieve them after a fight (if having the opportunity of course)?

Are certain pieces of an arrow allowed to be crafted by the player? Like knapping an arrowhead out of the glass that makes up the bottom of a 12oz beer bottle is actually very simple when practiced. Not easy, but the method is simple. And the resulting arrowhead is quite sharp and devastating. I can imagine quite a few people in the game, that given their history and occupation, are actually quite proficient in crafting certain small scale objects. Like Anthony. Able to fletch an arrow and use common found materials to craft an arrowhead, but making the shaft is simply outside his ability as he has neither the tools nor the has anyone taught him how.

Speaking of razor sharp jagged glass, do certain materials or circumsances cause aggravated damage over time? Like say a knapped glass arrowhead hits a target's femur. The arrow doesn't go thru the entire leg, but the arrowhead shatters against the bone. Each following movement made by the unlucky git results in the glass shards further shredding soft tissue and causing ridiculous amounts of pain.

Melee weapons:

The knife found in the inventory. What size is it approx? I'm imagining that since it isn't listed as a melee weapon, that it is more around the size and functionality of a Mora Clipper or other similar bushcraft blade (I own 2 clipper model Moras in real life, and have a profound respect for their excellent functionality.) Can it be used for a silent take down if the player makes a successful sneak/stealth attack? A 9 cm blade Mora clipper is more than capable of slicing thru vocal cords and arteries, especially if you keep it sharp. I can shave hair from my arm with ease IRL.

Are we going to be taking environmental effects into play? A storm that washed away tracks, or a current storm that is hindering sight, hearing and movement; but is also able to help in a stealth check when trying to escape & evade. Frigid temperatures. stuff like that.



All I got to ask thus far, before I make my first post.

[Esper Kohnen]

IRL, if someone was good enough with a ranged weapon, then their chance of hitting someone would be much higher, but imagine if someone called a shot against your character and you really really didn't want to get shot at that moment in time. Sure, that would make it more realistic, but it's unfair if people can go around making shots and never miss, and there really is no way to enforce the fact that people will, eventually miss. So it's left up to the person you're taking aim at to confirm whether or not your shot hit. It is, after all, their character at risk. I'm aware that the same problems apply but in reverse; a character may want to decide that they never get shot.

We have rules about that kind of thing, namely no powerplaying or godmoding. Powerplaying is controlling someone else's character, like deciding that your punch hits or your arrow hits when they haven't been given a chance to respond. Godmoding is dodging every attack sent at you, and never getting hurt. So there has to be a reasonable balance. Not all shots will hit. Not all shots can be dodged.

I suppose it's down to how you write your post. If you're a matter of metres away then the other player can't, in good conscience, say they ducked and get away with it. but then you have the problem of approaching another character without getting noticed, so it's about how you write your posts and how clever you can be. If your using tree branches to approach a character from behind, can they say they saw your character out of the corner of their eye or heard their footfalls rustling through grass?
Well, no, they can't.
I'm just trying to be fair and give all players a chance here.

Also, there's no way to decide how proficient is proficient enough. You can't measure that kind of thing with words. There's a code where character stats could be displayed in the bar beside each post you make but that would be making things unnecessarily complicated.


As for certain bits of an arrow being crafted by the player, I suppose it could be done, but it makes gathering the various parts a little complicated. (And we're trying to make things as simple as possible.) How can you regulate how many sticks or how much broken glass they find? You can't. Therefore you might end up with just a few characters who have hundreds of arrows and can, in a single 'transitioning' post, describe how they make hundreds more.
It's fairer, then, to make arrows irretrievable (as many would get lost or break anyway) so that the only way to obtain them is by shops. That way, a system depends on money, which then depends on post count.

((I am aware that I seem to be rambling here. If I lose you, just tell me.))

Speaking of razor sharp jagged glass, do certain materials or circumstances cause aggravated damage over time? Like say a knapped glass arrowhead hits a target's femur. The arrow doesn't go thru the entire leg, but the arrowhead shatters against the bone. Each following movement made by the unlucky git results in the glass shards further shredding soft tissue and causing ridiculous amounts of pain.

Wow. Gory. That would likely cripple someone, and take weeks to recover from. The recovery period isn't what I'm concerned about, it's the crippling. I doubt a player would want to have millions of bits of glass in their characters' leg, which would be pretty much impossible to get out. That leg would never be the same again. At our current member count, all it would take is eight arrows to have a site full of limping characters. Funny to watch, but unless the player says it's alright to shoot that kind of thing at their character, I wouldn't go around firing thing like that at people.


Onto the knife:
I'm not familiar with Mora Clippers, but I have a J. Marttiini Finland knife which has a blade of 8.5cm. I classify that as small. (Mostly because it looks tiddly next to my Bowie knife.) The knife found in the starter list would be approximately that size; big enough to cut rope and animal skin and maybe do some damage to someone with, but with it's relatively short blade you'd have to get in pretty close and someone with a longer arm could just punch your character in the face. Not at all aerodynamic so you couldn't get a straight shot if you threw it.

Of course, the environment would be a factor in all posts, and I'm thinking of setting up an info bar describing the season and kind of weather In Character, but so far it's up to whoever's in the thread to set the weather, time of day, etc.

Most of these things (like buying arrows, not making them, not being able to retrieve them, etc.) are just in place because with the inventory system on this site, things can get really complicated, really quickly, and if that happened there'd probably be a dozen loopholes that can be used to stock up on ammo, weapons, etc.
Right now the whole inventory system is in a testing period. I haven't seen any other sites with a system like it and I've wondered why that is. If it works out, then maybe we'll bring in a way to make your own arrows and things like that. However, if it gets unnecessarily complicated or takes ages to get used to it, then it'll likely be scrapped. So please bear with us.

[Anthony M. Steiner]

Well, the problem with the ammo stocking issue is why I suggested the limiters. Maybe someone can make an arrow shaft, but know jack diddly about making an arrowhead. Vice Versa on that, arrowhead can be crafted, but the shaft is outside the realm of capability. It sets a pretext that someone could get a certain item at a very slight discount, due to only one area already being covered (just need to purchase shafts, instead of an entire arrow) The shattering arrowhead would also make the arrow likely useless after each shot, be it a hit or miss. I also figured that the aggravated damage could only be applied to NPCs, in the game. And the aggravated damage could only occur if it hits a bone of a NPC (which is also alot more uncommon than one would think, most bone hits IRL are nicks or glancing blows as most bones are round and provide very little direct surface contact. So said aggr. damage could only be applied in rare circumstances) Just some thoughts.

If this over complicates things, I understand, just figured I'd try getting a feel for the game world and whether or not a character can fix or fashion an item (be it an entire item, or only a portion of the finished product) to be sold (bartered for a discount) or used under certain circumstances. Otherwise, a mechanic or blacksmith playable character might be severely limited in what they can do.

[Anthony M. Steiner]

The Finnish knife of which you speak is very similar to the Mora clipper I mentioned. Yours' is simply half a centimetre shorter in blade length and the Mora has a synthetic handle. These blades are actually better suited for stealth combat than your bowie, as they have a slimmer blade profile and thickness. They are razor sharp and slicing thru sinew and ligament is much easier due to the Finnish/Scandi grind being so keen and yet simple in it's bevel design. The lighter weight is also an advantage as well as the better blade to handle balance.

I'll PM you to continue this in greater detail. Reasons for will be included.

[Esper Kohnen]

It sounds like a decent system, and it could probably work, as well as giving Settler and Freelancer characters much more freedom in what they could actually do. But right now we're just starting off with a system that's not common elsewhere on other Proboards sites, and we can't tell how it'll work out just yet. I like the sound of the idea that parts of items can be made and then assembled into different items, but we're trying to keep this simple to start off with, and if it works, expand. If it does work then this'll be one of the first things to be added.

I think characters would be able to set up their own shop threads if it comes into effect.

And the shattering arrowhead can be used on NPCs by all means, but I recommend getting permission from the player you're taking aim at if you try to shoot one at a character.

[Anthony M. Steiner]

Another interesting take is that certain weapons could have unique effects and unique flaws.

Take the crossbow for example. Takes forever to reload, and as being a 1 round per load weapon, it's rate of fire is severely lacking. On the other hand, crossbows were originally invented for their armor penetration capabilities. So the crossbow can give you an advantage in piercing a light shield or a chest protector made from an old road sign. The protective qualities of a stab proof vest, worn by the Enforcers and such, could be ignored as could a metal helmet. But again, these effects could only be taken into account if both the crossbow and the bolts are of decent/good quality. A crossbow of shoddy work or an old one on it's last leg might not have the strength to provide enough force. A cruddy bolt might not be aerodynamic and thus won't maintain the needed velocity. The shape of the bolt's head is also a factor. If the shape is like that of a broad head arrow, then such items like a stab proof vest would still be sufficient. But if the head is shaped more like a rifle bullet (a smooth round point) then you'd have the "Ice pick vs. flak jacket" effect, and it could punch thru.

A traditional bow may not have the armor penetrating strength of a crossbow, but it can use a wider variety of arrows and fire them at a faster rate. Soft armors, like leather or repurposed plastics, wouldn't protect you; but a stab vest or metal chest plate or helmet would. There are certain arrowhead shapes that can penetrate better, like the elongated 4 point diamond types that a crossbow normally uses; but the traditional bow still can't produce the velocity needed to bite thru a piece of heavy and/or specialty armor (though cheaply fashioned light metal armors like the road sign chest plate I mentioned could be ignored if within a certain range.) The wider range of arrowheads could include glass (which potential effects have been previosly discussed), fishing (three prong- extremely short range, useless in a fight and the prongs can break if they hit something hard, but great for the shallow stream fishing).

[the reason why crossbows couldn't use alot of specialty ammo, before modern technology made new alloys possible, was because the velocity of the bolt was so fast that any imbalance due to lighter/heavier/oddshaped heads would throw off the bolt's trajectory in random and in some times extreme fashions. In some cases, the bolt would start flipping end over end]

The paintball gun (firing the ball bearings) may have the fastest rate of fire (as fast as you can pull the trigger), but the ball bearings have near zero armor penetrating qualities. It's simply a round ball travelling at around 600 feet per second (I amped up the velocity beyond anything you'd see with today's paintball guns because I imagine that any decent crafter or repairman can crank up the pressure. ) Despite being able to punch thru a human skull, it's simply not the right shape to penetrate armor of anykind. Even a hand crafted leather chest protector would be enough to stop one of the bearings, though it would still hurt like bloody hell. Another factor is that even though ammo is cheap and plentiful, the user would still need to have the air tank refilled. This can be done by any mechanic with a compressor, but if out in the field and you find your tank doesn't have enough pressure then you're boned. I suppose one could manually recharge their airtanks with a modified bike pump, but being half a century since the fall, I'd figure that a working hand pump would be a rare and fabulously expensive find.

Throwing knives: It's a knife. And it's suitable for throwing. But it's still a knife first and can be used as one. It'll cut rope. It can be used to stab or slice someone too. (though it won't handle a bushcraft job as well as it simply isn't designed for notching or skinning game, but it would make an excellent impromptu dagger) Like the small wood axe. It can split skulls just as easy as wood (though a hatchet isn't exactly balanced for such uses but you get the idea.)

Just some thoughts that I wanted to share.

To clarify for everyone, I am not trying to supercede anyone's authority. The rules are given by the Amins and the Admins only. These were simply thoughts that I wanted to share with all of the authors, both current and future alike. I personally will be taking my gear's pros and cons into effect everytime. I know that my bow won't penetrate heavy armor, so I won't be making any claims of that effect. I find unique effects and draw backs to each weapon make a game more interesting, and causes me to think more about what I should buy or what tactics should be used.

I also know that my character is fallible, and so is his kit. My character will make mistakes, and his gear may sometimes fail at a very inconvenient times (falls off the back of a wagon or down a steep hill and loses his knife or a few arrows get snapped. Draws his bow on a raider that's bearing down on him and the bow string snaps due to use and age)

I'll stop rambling now.